This transcript was prepared by a transcription service. This version may not be in its final form and may be updated.
Greg Bartalos: Hello and welcome to Barron’s The Way Forward. I’m Greg Bartalos, and my guest today is Kay Lynn Mayhue, president of Merit Financial Advisors. Today we’ll be discussing how wealth management firms can create a culture of personal development. Welcome to the podcast, Kay Lynn.
Kay Lynn Mayhue: Oh, Greg, thank you so much. I’m excited to be here with you.
Greg Bartalos: Excellent. So you’ve been with Merit Financial for a while.
Kay Lynn Mayhue: I have.
Greg Bartalos: And what’s really interesting is you graduated from University of Texas. Tell me about why that was so notable and what you studied and how you started your career. It’s interesting.
Kay Lynn Mayhue: It was actually University of North Texas, so still in the wonderful state of Texas, but I think I was their first graduating class for the CFP designation back in the day.
Greg Bartalos: That’s amazing.
Kay Lynn Mayhue: It was one of those universities that adopted it pretty early, and I had a professor pull me aside and said, “Hey, I know you’re a finance major and you’ve got this marketing minor here. Have you thought about financial services and financial planning as a career path?” And to be honest, I hadn’t. So what a great thing it was to have an adjunct professor come along and point me in this direction. It’s been a wild ride. I started as an intern in the business roughly 27 years ago, and have played just about every role that you can imagine from intern, to successor, to partner, to seller, now I sit at Merit, and part of my role is on the M&A side of the business as well. So now I’m, I guess you could say a serial buyer of practices. So I’ve worn many, many hats and just love this business. It’s such a noble profession.
Greg Bartalos: Yeah, and I mean what’s really interesting is that, I mean, you’re maybe an inadvertent pioneer, if you will. You could wear the hat, I don’t know. But what’s interesting is that you started then in ’98 as an intern, and then you rose through the ranks in parallel as the industry matured too. So it’s very interesting. Now your president, Merit’s huge. The industry has elevated it become this massive thing.
Kay Lynn Mayhue: Well, I think it’s become a mature industry if you think about it back in the day. Well, I mean, even take technology as an example. I can remember the first financial plans that I did, it was on a yellow legal pad, and maybe we graduated to using Excel. And I think now at mayor, I lost count, but I think we’ve got 16 pieces of technology that feed into our financial planning process now. So we’ve just matured, and then you look at what’s going on in the industry as far as business valuations and things along those lines. And I think we’re finally getting the recognition that this is a true profession. And I think it’s absolutely fantastic.
Greg Bartalos: And I mean, I would surmise that a lot of your advancement, I don’t know to what extent things were centrally planned, to what extent it was a combination of planning and ad hoc responding to changing business conditions and all of it. But the industry has learned a lot and grown up a lot. And it’s in a place now where someone new to the profession in many ways has advantages that people maybe didn’t 10, 20 years ago. They’re coming in, it’s better funded, better managed, et cetera.
Kay Lynn Mayhue: Absolutely. I mean, even take new business development as an example, when I got into the business, the different avenues that I looked at, whether it be the insurance side or the wirehouse side, I looked at all of them. And there was one way to enter as a financial advisor, and it’s were you going to bring to the table? And now we have so many different entry places to our business and we’ve got several different types of advisors even on our teams. And so to offer those different channels and those different entry points, I think what we’re getting is we’re getting some really great, talented individuals to where it’s not this… Now, this is dating me a little bit, but how big is your Rolodex? I can remember one of the questions, how many holiday cards?
Greg Bartalos: I can relate to the Rolodex. Yep, I remember those things.
Kay Lynn Mayhue: Yeah. But gain, I’m going to go back to that maturity. And I think the reason why we have matured as an industry is the topic that you wanted to talk to me about today, which is this personal development. So we’ve developed as an industry, but I think that we’ve developed as an industry because we’ve developed individually, and then we’ve come together collectively. You look at the founders as examples of these firms, the people that were willing to go out there and take that risk to bring in the new business. And they’ve reached a place now where they’ve got teams that they’re working with, they’re putting that CEO, that business owner hat on instead of just keeping their blinders on and staying with the day-to-day daily grind. And that is the reason why we are seeing this evolution in our business. It’s so exciting.
Greg Bartalos: And tell me about how this manifests itself at your firm, for example.
Kay Lynn Mayhue: I think it starts with a tool that we use, which we call the Personal Development Plan. And we’ll abbreviate it and call it PDP internally. And this is a tool that I’m always happy to share with anybody. I don’t even think it’s specific to our industry. I think that anybody could use it. And it’s one that we evolve each year. We try to improve upon, we try to get more efficient. But this tool, and when I say everybody in the team does this, everybody in the team, this is from myself, my entire leadership team to the interns, we view this as a way for people to take a step back from the day-to-day and really communicate to us where they want to be. And it asks some questions, things like the keep, start, stop exercise is one of my favorites.
What do I need to keep doing because it’s working? What do I need to stop doing because it’s not working? And what do I need to start doing? And all of this is in the spirit of their personal development. Asking questions, things like, are my skills being utilized to the highest extent? Aren’t those great things that we all want to know about ourselves in self-reflection? And I’ve got to say, I’ve taken these multiple years and revisit it throughout the years, and there have been times where I have said no. And I look at this from a personal standpoint and say, if I’m doing exactly what I was doing a year ago, I’m actually failing the company from a stewardship.
So I think that it’s that mindset of that kaizen, that constant never ending improvement and thriving towards what they want. And so as leaders, I don’t think that we can dictate what someone’s preferred future looks like. We need to have a platform where they can communicate that to us, and then it’s our responsibility and job to help foster that. And this particular tool has been instrumental in helping sometimes… And I’ve had a couple of situations, Greg, where they’ve actually communicated that they weren’t right for our team in this exercise, but don’t you want to know that as a leader?
Greg Bartalos: Yeah. Exactly. And the sooner, the better.
Kay Lynn Mayhue: Absolutely. So giving them that platform to communicate those things has just been, I think it truly has created a culture of personal development.
Greg Bartalos: Yeah, it’s definitely interesting. And I would imagine that in an ideal scenario, the following would happen. The employee would say, “I want this.” Whatever this is, and the employee is good at whatever it is that will get them to that. And thirdly, it’s something that serves the company’s agenda and is aligned with something that you want to do on a corporate level. And then it’s like, “Ah, all the stars aligned.” And maybe you might have one, the company wants it, the employee wants it, but they’re not that good at doing it. And you’re like, “Okay, well this is salvageable because we’re on the same page, but they just need a little help.” Or it could be like they excel at something, and the company wants it, but they’re not that interested. And you might say, “Is there a way to cultivate interest in it?” But I agree that it’s enlightened because so often with management that isn’t often considered, it’s like employees are often seen as more anonymous and generic. You’re just a body, we need you to do A, B, and C. Let’s do it. It’s like, okay, but if you can fine tune it a little and align interest, then you’ll probably have happier people will help with retention and ROI might improve all of that.
Kay Lynn Mayhue: Well, when you were talking through what is typical, I would agree. That is more times often than not what you get, you’re aligned, and you get some further clarity into what is driving them or what their report card is. Because everybody has their own personal report card. I’ll share a little story about a time where that wasn’t the case. And so-
Greg Bartalos: We like stories here.
Kay Lynn Mayhue: I had what we call a relationship manager. Think about this as more of a service advisor. And she came to me and said, “Wow, I want to be a producing advisor. I want to be a full-fledged advisor. I want to be out there bringing in new clients.” And it just so happened that her father was hugely successful in sales in another area of financial services. So she had grown up seeing her dad and just really had this admiration for him. And that’s the path that she thought she wanted to be on. She had been with the firm for about two years at that point, and I had not seen an ounce of this. So this was years ago. So I was really in tune with… It was a smaller team at the time. Now we’re at 250 or so team members. We were a smaller team at the time.
And I was like, “Oh, I just don’t see this.” But it wasn’t my job to tell her I didn’t see it. It was my job to help hold up the mirror, and that’s what this PDP process did. And so we went out there and we said, “Okay, for the next couple of quarters, this is what you’re going to do. You’re going to join the chamber, you’re going to find some speaking opportunities. You’re going to go to breakfast, lunch and dinner with different COIs in the business and let’s get you this sphere of influence that you’re looking for.” And so we did a check-in about 90 days in and I said, “Well, how’s it going?” And her exact response was, “I guess it’s okay, but I wish I didn’t hate it so much.”
And so what it did is it opened up this opportunity for me to show all of these wonderful traits that she had and what made her so good at what she had been doing, and how do we develop those traits versus you try to redefine yourself and point across the pond and say, “I want to be that person that doesn’t have those God-given talents or those same core, just wonderful traits because, so I think it’s a tool both ways. So it helps confirm what the leader might be thinking, but it also will bring in some surprises from time to time that you can use as a way to redirect when needed.
Greg Bartalos: And I guess the test can also spare some people from some uncomfortable conversations because it’s almost like, “Well, the test is telling you something.” And maybe a fewer hurt feelings maybe too.
Kay Lynn Mayhue: Yeah. Well, you know what? And that’s so interesting that you mentioned as far as different tests. So I’m personally a personality test junkie. There’s one in particular that I think is just absolutely fantastic, and I think the firm name is DNA Behavior or Behavior DNA. It’s a great tool to use with clients, but it’s also a great tool to use with your team, because what it does is it highlights your strengths and your weaknesses, helps build some team comradery around it. I can remember back in the day, and Colby’s another one of my favorites, there’s a ton of these out there, but I can remember, this was 23, 24 years ago. I had an advisor on the team that I thought was trying to drive me crazy. Every meeting, every interaction we had, it was just like we were butting heads. And the first personality profile that I had taken or that we had taken as a team came to an existence and happened to be Colby back then.
And I can remember looking at where we were just absolute extremes, and I had a huge appreciation for what he was bringing to the table. And so instead of looking at it as he’s trying to drive me crazy, all of a sudden I’m looking at it, wow, as a team, this makes us stronger. And so what I have found when we have interpersonal challenges with our team, that a lot of times it’s because either A, people are too alike and so you’re butting heads because you’re going after the same thing. Maybe you’re both super communicative and so everybody wants the table all the time, or maybe it’s you’re an opposite, to where you have an introvert and an extrovert, to where you’ve got that outgoing individual that’s pulling alongside the person and wanting them to come to client events and do different things that they just don’t feel, that isn’t what energizes them.
So I think these personality tests can be great in personal development as well, and self-understanding, self-assessment, anything that helps us better. StrengthsFinder is another great one. There’s so many great tools that we can use. So I would suggest for the folks listening, it’s find something that works for you and then bring it to the people that you interact with, that could even be your clients, but definitely your team.
Greg Bartalos: When I was in college, I recall I took a test that would tell me what vocation I was ideal for. I’m forgetting the name, and the number one was journalist/broadcast journalist, and number two was bus driver. And-
Kay Lynn Mayhue: I’m glad you didn’t choose that, Greg. You’re doing phenomenal at this.
Greg Bartalos: Well, anyway, I was just kind of curious. That always stuck with me, but maybe when I retire, I’ll be a part-time bus driver. I don’t know. These tests are definitely compelling to help firms. I mean, is it kind of thing, depending on the size of the firm, et cetera, are there any tried and true that you would recommend wholeheartedly regardless?
Kay Lynn Mayhue: I would say just find something that you can get behind personally. So have the leaders take a number of these and see what you can look at the piece of paper, the results and say, “Yes, this is me.” Some of it specifically, I can remember on the DNA Behavior one, there were a few of these things that I was looking, that I was so lacking in. I had such an extreme that I said, “Oh, I wish I had that. But if you were to ask my husband or any of my five kids, they would say, “Yep, that’s mom. Yep, that’s my wife.” And so some of it is just helping us identify those blind spots that we need to be really careful with, or it’s where we have deficits that we need to surround ourselves with our team members that will fill in those holes where we have gaps.
Greg Bartalos: Yeah, I mean, I think that’s really interesting because you’ll have gaps, but many times you’re unaware of the dormant skills that people have. They have special things that can help the company, but no one’s aware of what they can because siloed into a specific task or job.
Kay Lynn Mayhue: Absolutely. So I can remember we were hiring for an accounting position and I looked at their DNA and they were off the charts on creativity. And I’m like, so we’re hiring someone that we want to do accounts receivables and payables and look at spreadsheets and be in our accounting software all day. And we have this individual that’s really, really creative. Will fast-forward, and it was a mismatch from a job standpoint, but we were able to identify outlets for that creativity and get them on a path that they’ve been wildly successful in. So even if you’ve got someone that’s in a position that may not be the right fit, just giving them that 10% or 20% outlet on things that are going to energize them can keep that talent. I think the title of this had that culture of personal development. Culture is one of those words that is hard to define.
And I look at it as, what would your team say about the firm? How would they describe the firm? And that’s how I would define culture. And if your team members don’t feel heard, if they don’t feel appreciated for the contribution and the talents that they bring, you’ve got a gap in likely where you want to be from a culture standpoint. So I think that that’s where this personal development comes into play. I don’t think that you can have a good, healthy culture and not have a culture of personal development. I think that those two things go hand in hand.
Greg Bartalos: Okay. And in addition to that, let’s say someone darting a firm and they want to create a culture of personal development. How much of it is there going to be an element of leading by example to some extent, how you present yourself, devalues, you engender, how you carry yourself? To what extent should this be explicit or is it understood? I mean, anything else you could add to that?
Kay Lynn Mayhue: Yeah, so as you know Greg, we’re a company that’s a compilation of a lot of companies that have come together over the years. I think that we’ve done a total of 20 transactions over the last two years. And during that time period, we’re onboarding. I mean, we’ve more than doubled in size as far as number of team members. And so instead of recruiting one or two people at a time, we might have a team of 20 that’s joining us or a team of five. And so what we try to do at the beginning is fast-forward getting to know them through these assessment tools and through these PDPs, we have to be incredibly intentional about it, and we include it in our transition and our integration process. And I think, and we have identified what I would consider to be dysfunctional teams. I’ll give you some examples.
I’ll give you one example. So we had a team of two advisors that had been wildly successful, so successful that they were looking at bringing in another advisor just to help them with capacity. And so they were interviewing and they came, they know the role that I sit in, that I see a lot of different advisors and different things going on. And they said, “Hey, we think we found the perfect match.” And I said, “Well, bring me their personality profile. I want to see it.” And I happen to know these two advisors personality profiles, and they’re really similar. There’s a reason why they get along so well. They think alike. They just really admire and work well together as a team. And guess what? They were trying to hire the support person and guess the person that they found that was going to be this amazing next gen advisor looked exactly like them on paper. And I said, “Time out guys. This is not going to work.” Because I think as just human nature, we love people that are like us. We’re just like, “Wow, they’re fantastic. They’re just like me.”
Greg Bartalos: Yeah. Birds of a feather, right?
Kay Lynn Mayhue: Yes. And as you build out a team, so if you’ve got that smaller team, what you don’t want is you don’t want your extreme opposite, that’s going to drive you crazy. If you have no buffer in between it, and you happen to be an extreme on one side or the other on these major personality traits. So you want to find that buffer as your first couple of hires, and then you can start bringing in more of those extremes. But very rarely in smaller teams, do you want to be hiring your exact equal or your exact opposite?
Greg Bartalos: Right. Yeah. I would imagine you want your skill sets to be complimentary.
Kay Lynn Mayhue: Absolutely.
Greg Bartalos: So it’s almost like a switch-blade with all these different, the corkscrew, you got this knife and blade and whatnot. So yeah, you work together cohesively, but you bring different things to the table.
Kay Lynn Mayhue: You got it.
Greg Bartalos: Excellent. Well, we’re just about out of time. I want to ask if there’s anything else you want to add, anything we didn’t touch on?
Kay Lynn Mayhue: Well, we talked about culture, and I do want to just, it starts with leading by example. You said it earlier as far as where does it start? You’ve got to take this stuff seriously. You’ve got to make it a priority. You’ve got to take time to do it. I share my personal development plan with the team. It’s transparent. It sits on our file exchange for anybody to take a look at. I spend a lot of time thinking about it. And the very last thing that I would say, if anybody’s going to adopt a method of getting feedback and having these type of reviews, there’s one question in there that I think is one of the most impactful ones, and it is something that you ask the people that you work the closest with. So you don’t even need the tool. Maybe you just ask these questions of the folks that you’re working with.
It is, what do you need more of from me? What do you need less of from me? And then we also gauge the energy. We get feedback on how is my energy? Because we all hit these slumps, and it’s amazing the feedback that you can get. Your team feels it. You feel it from your team. And so just those three simple questions and having those conversations can be really huge. There’s also a book that I think is fantastic for anybody whose business is going through an evolution, which I mean, we’re in constant evolution, and it is what got you here won’t get you there. And I thought that I was going to read it and get something completely different. It’s a lot of self-assessment. So get ready to have some of those humbling moments and then ask your team to give feedback in those same categories. So it’s been instrument instrumental for this last year as far as personal development for me and some of my leadership team as well.
Greg Bartalos: Excellent. Well, those are great advice. Very much appreciated.
Kay Lynn Mayhue: Well, thank you so much for having me on.
Greg Bartalos: My pleasure. Thank you again. My guest was Kay Lynn Mayhue. For more advisor specific podcast, please check out barrons.com/podcast. For The Way Forward. I’m Greg Bartalos.
